SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hi, Kimmy.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Hi, Lou. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I'm you look great.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

You look really tell me.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Well, um, I'm glad I look great because I feel dead inside. Uh I'm so exhausted. Like I'm running like the last couple weeks have been insane. Just no days off, very many nights of very little sleep. Um, but today I went to my naturopath and she gave me a vitamin C drip and an ozone drip. And uh and I feel dead inside, but now my skin looks great.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

So you know you look spectacular. Yeah. I mean, I don't really know. And you're having a good hair day.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, my hair is really hairing right now. It's you know what's hilarious about that is I was so tired last night that I washed my hair and then just fell asleep with it, which usually when it's wet and you fall asleep on it, you're like, I'm gonna look like a Muppet. But today I was like, oh, it dried in like a cool bedhead way. It's just like one of those days. I don't know if you ever saw that show. Um, oh my god, what is it called? It's the British show with oh it's the British show with that woman, and she like is obsessed with a priest, and oh my gosh. I'm I'm blanking. I know I have to look up right now because there's an episode, flea bag.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Um yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

And there's an episode where like her it's her mom's funeral and she like looks amazing, and everyone just keeps being like, You look so amazing, but it's her mom's funeral, like her hair, everything is perfect. And I'm like, that's kind of what if she's like having the worst day of her life because it's her mom's funeral, but she's looks amazing. Looks amazing. No, it's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

That's P Waller Bridge. She is she is a spectacular writer.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I mean, I really hilarious. So funny. That's I would I would just I would sell my soul for another season season of Flea Bag because it was so good, but it also ended so great. No, it's not. I don't think it's gonna happen. It's not a good thing. No, it'll never it'll never happen.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, also the way it ended was so good that I don't actually want it to because it was like the most do you know that they hired her to punch up um the James Bond film, the last James Bond film with Daniel Craig in it, No Time, I think it's no time to die.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

I didn't even know there was another one.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Well, no, no, this came out two years ago, three years ago, or something like that. We'll we'll put a link in the show. It's actually really good. And rumored, this is all rumor, but rumor has it that Daniel Craig didn't want to do it. But because the script had a huge emotional component to it, that is, oh no, I can get my teeth into that. So he did it. Okay. And it is spectacular. It is it is a spectacular end of an era.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Well, what I do know about her, which is that she got like a crazy production deal through Amazon, like millions of dollars, and like produce a single thing. And I'm kind of like, get it, girl, get your Amazon bag and like exactly right. That is peak everything for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Peak everything. No, absolutely right. Um, speaking of peak everything, we're we're peaking in the AI space. And I wanted to talk to you about this article that I found on The Guardian.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Um Lou has sent me this article like three times in the last two weeks, and every time it's like, please read this article, and I was like, got it. And then today was like, let's talk about this article. I'm like, Yes, I'm there.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, no, you're absolutely there. And it's it's funny because um it it sort of supposes that we're all becoming digital janitors uh the in the creative space. And I did a little bit of a deeper dive, and this is in fact a cycle that we're in with AI, that a new technology comes around, um, democratizes some sort of production, and then the market gets flooded with cheap shit, horrible shit, then um the human intervened or the human-created stuff gains more value. So I guess the the the takeaway here is try to stay alive during this AI slop shit.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Don't die. Don't die. Um well you sent me don't die. You sent me that, and you know, it I always, of course, and I go to Claude and I'm like, hi Claude, I'm gonna ask you a question about yourself. And I'm because I basically wanted to know hey, if every single worker is getting replaced with AI and no one makes any money, who's gonna buy the stuff that the AI is like working on? Like capitalism requires people to buy stuff. And so there is gonna be a point in time where the snake is gonna eat its own tail to the point where it's dead. But I it's interesting because it basically said, yeah, there has to, there has to be some sort of balance, whether that's universal basic income or it has to be.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah, we were talking about universal basic income. And when I first heard about that, I had that very white male perspective. I mean, I heard about this 20 years ago, and it's like that very white male, it's like, well, pull up your bootstraps and go get a job and blah, blah, blah. And okay, boomer. Exactly. Exactly. But I'm actually the first generation of Gen X thinking.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I know, I know, I know. Don't worry. We know you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

I'm very proud of that, Fad. Very proud of that. Because I'm the Gen X that actually did something. Yeah. But um, but now, um, you know, after having some a couple decades to think about it, I I'm a believer in universal basic income because I think crime would go down, I think there would be less stress, there'd be less mental health issues. There, you know, if we could also in concert create more mental health support, yeah, I think the world would be a way better place. Universal basic income, I mean, I don't even get me started on the disparity between, you know, somebody like Jeff Bezos and the trillions of dollars that is out there is being hoarded by people who seem to get off on making more money, which is hey, don't get me wrong, I'm capitalist and I'm all in favor of uh making a good living. But at some point you have to look at your bank account balance and see, you know, several B's and be like, well, geez, what could I do to help society that oh, by the way, the same society that gave me these Bs. Do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Totally. I mean, you're talking to somebody who comes from a very leftist punk like uh ethos. And for me, I'm always like, How do you what do you do when you when you're that rich? That's what why they do that's probably why they sacrifice children because that's about the only fun they can have when they have that much money. You know what I mean? Like I mean, this is sometimes what I'm like when you hear the conspiracy theories, you're like, Well, I it kind of makes sense. Like, I feel like at some point in time you must be so bored when you just have to do like the or not even get off.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

It's a yeah, exactly just to be like feel anything.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Feel anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

That's actually right. I mean, it's just it reminds me of that song Um Hurt by Nine Inch Nails, you know, like it's it's yeah, it's that to to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

So well, I think about that all the time when especially when I see I just like saw that um Cindy Crawford's like son died, and it's just Oh god, isn't it oh my gosh? And it just reminded me, I've seen so you know, you we've seen so many like celebrity kids or kids from like these families that obviously have everything at their feet, right? Uh become addicted to drugs and die or do something to basically cause a very early death. And I do think it has to do with like when you're presented with everything, you don't have a purpose, and it's just like this very slippery slope because you can't. I think for me when I was that age, there was like such a fire to do something because I wanted a survival, but also like a deep purpose to do something. And I think for the kids that like don't have that in them or are kind of just handed everything and are like, Well, I don't have to do anything because my family will take care of me and I have money and etc. It's really easy to slip into that path of addiction.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Oh, especially when you're young. I mean, when so I started very, very young in the photo industry, and uh a good friend of mine who's a model named Jenny and I would run up our American Express cards, and American Express you have to pay off at the end of the month, like you can't carry the balance. Um, suddenly we would look at our balances like, oh boy, we gotta, we gotta pay this. And so we'd go find work and then we'd find the work and we'd be able to pay it. And you know, photography at the time, fashion photography at the time was paying really, really well. Um, and it was it was a it was a very weird space to be in, to be so young, because you don't have the maturity to deal with it, to deal with that kind of ease of getting cash.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah. I mean, I hustled so hard, and but I always hustled enough just to survive because like my main my main thing was never like I can't wait to be rich. I was always like, oh, I can't wait to make like really amazing music or travel or or whatever. And so I would just do enough to do that, you know. But I think about the things that I did, I'm like selling like reselling clothes back before anyone did that. You know, I used to go to Goodwill and then resell to vintage stores, and I was a face painter, and you know, I just anything that somebody anything to survive, right? Yeah, somebody if somebody would ask me, Can you do this? I'd be like, shh yes. And then I would have to learn how to do it. I mean, including working for you, everything you'd be like, Can you do this? I'm like, oh yeah, for sure. I can.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

And then I was like, can't be that hard to learn how to do that. No, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Well, I mean, and and the corollary to to my story is that, you know, I then, you know, making money, being creative has fits and starts. And I went through a down period and I was broke, broke, really broke. And I was just thinking at that time that God had I saved even a little bit of the money that I was making instead of squandering it, I would have been able to ride this out. And it's my first lesson. And like, by the way, there's gonna be good times and bad times, and you have to ride the bad times out by putting some money away and those good times will come. And but oh my gosh, but it was like I said, I was just too young. I was too young.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Yeah, I mean, it is like getting so much so much money is money is responsibility in some ways, but then also it's just like it allows you to do anything, you know. This is what we're talking about. It's certainly back to our very first thing where when you have all the money in the world, what is gonna like spike your dopamine? What's gonna make you happy when you can do anything?

SPEAKER_01 10:25

You know, I think it's uh I yeah, I changed my my attitude towards money and I look at it now as freedom. Yeah, you know, and I just I just want enough money to be able to go where I want. I'm not really a consumer. I mean, I've you know, I'm sitting here in my luxurious office. I mean, I have a nice office, but I'm not much of a consumer. I mean, there's certain things I like, I like good stereo gear, I like you know, nice stuff, but uh it's it's not a necessary, and it's I just I just want freedom. That's what I want. I want to be able to do go wherever I want. That's that's all I need money for. And I don't need a whole ton of money for that.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

And I think that's like once it's interesting because like talking about the AI slop, I think that a place where we kind of saw slop happen is fast fashion. You know, fast fashion is like but I think for me, you know, I will invest in a piece if it's like really well made. And it does, and that doesn't mean it's designer, because a lot of designers are using like the same kind of fab, the same manufacturers as fast fashion. So it's not always better, but like finding people who really still make your clothes, getting vintage, going to vintage clothes, um, clothing stores, and like paying a little bit more, and then also then like paying to upkeep your shoes, etc. For me, like that is where I spend my money. And it's more than if I were to go to like Zara or I don't know, people who I'm I'm still like amazed that people shop from like, you know, Aliba Shine, you know, all these like obviously there's a there's a uh a movie called it's a documentary on Brandy Melville called Brandy Hellville.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah, and we'll put that in the show notes as well. And it's it is fascinating because in that movie, I think this is the movie that I saw it in, they showed um in some poor um third world country that has agreed to take all of our discarded fashion pieces. There's little mountains of it. And when I say mountains, I mean like an actual mountain you could climb. Like it's it's it's kind of disgusting. And to your point, we were just talking, you were just talking about you know buying nice shoes. I'll buy, I'll pay an exorbitant amount of money for a pair of shoes that can be resold that I can keep around for a little while, you know, especially if they're nice looking. Because if they're well made, then you can resold them, and that's kind of the purpose of paying for quality stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I mean, our grandparents had things that lasted them their entire life, absolutely right, which is the crazy thing to think.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

So we know my grandparents dressed like shit, so I just gotta put that out there.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

I mean, I my grand my grandparents had style, I will say. And I did they? I could see that. Yeah, I mean, obviously, hello, got it from somewhere. Obviously. My dad like doesn't care about style. My mom is stylish, my mom is a stylish lady, but she's like she's like casual style.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah, my dad did not care about my style. My mom does. My mom's like she's kind of like the Parisian woman, even though she's Irish. Yeah, she just she has like a certain style, she has a very diminutive frame, and she's a she's you know, she's only five two, but she carries herself large and she looks good.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

So I love that.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

I know it's really good, right? So but um but what I think what we're seeing now with the the AI slop and graphic designers and creative people being asked to clean up the slop that was made by somebody else who doesn't isn't particularly creative. It's an interesting time right now, but I think it's gonna pass quickly because yeah, everything is it we've reached a new level of homogeny.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah. It's in general, it's bad. It's also because of like influencers and everyone's just like copying each other's style. Nothing is it, nothing's really um, it's not like it's it's not films and movies and music influencing style, it's like Instagram and TikTok, and so everyone just looks like each other. Also the faces, and I think that there is gonna be a currency in just doing what you want to do. And it's so interesting that you sent me this article again today because just this morning I saw a reel that was really interesting. I wish I would have saved it because it would have been cool to post about this guy who was like, Here is you know, a company asked me to do a like logo and brand story for them. And um, and then I quoted them and then they disappeared, and then I saw that they posted their new logo, which was made with AI, and it looks so AI. You can always tell they have these, it's a very specific look. And he's like, and here's what I would have made for them if they would have chosen me. And it shows him like hand printing it, doing and the logo, it looked so amazing and classy and good because they I somebody just fed it like what they wanted. And this guy obviously has like years and years and years of history, experience, yeah, working history. So it's not just about the design, it's about him being able to be like, Oh, what kind of brand story do you want to build with this? Like, what does that look like? And he his design, their design made it look like a like circus vibe, and his is what's like it looked, I can't I want to say it was like a restaurant, something it made it look just like the most amazing, beautiful, classy, like it was such a vibe. And it was an interesting thing to see because I think we always say, like, oh, real versus real versus AI. I think it's not even so much about like the AI creating it, but also about somebody being able to be like, I know how to tell a story, which AI still doesn't know how to tell a story, it knows how to tell other stories and fragments of those stories.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Well, and it's it's also very good at creating a pastiche, you know, in form in narrative form, but you're still pulling from or AI is still pulling from everybody else's already written stuff.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

And it's not it, it does, it's it's so originality is the currency, I think, is what we're getting to.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Yeah, 100%. And I think I really hope that that is what we're gonna go back to.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

I think that's I think it's gonna happen more quickly than not because unlike other times, you know, like when photography replaced portrait painters, right? So photography came wrong and and everyone said this is the death of portrait painting. Well, what happened is because portrait painting went away, painters started painting emotion and art, and it it created a new renaissance for painters. So there is something to be said for that. But I think in the AI space, is there are so many villains in the AI space, and there's so much negativity around it that um, especially with the data centers and all that, that it is gonna rise. Um, people, the the so-called democratization of art and people being able to create things vis-a-vis what you said about this logo is going to happen and then it's gonna flame out really, really quickly. Because I, you know, what we do for a living in terms of being creative professionals, and a lot of people are creative professionals and they have to have a side hustle or or vice versa, because you can't. Yes, exactly. And so um, but I think that there's something to be said for people who live in that headspace of being creative and yes, learning how to draw upon their experiences to create originality, and I think originality is going to be the new currency.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

I I fully, fully agree. I fully agree.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

So I don't think we're doomed. I don't think we're doomed.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

No, no. The only like I guess can say the only doom is if the AI is like control I'll delete human.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

That would be bad.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

That would be bad, but like also, I mean, as long as I'm always like, as long as the animals get to keep living, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Of course you are.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

As long as the nature gets to stay, as long as nature gets to stay.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Well, nature will be.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Sometimes I'm like, we're just trash bunnies. Like, that is what humans are. We're just trash animals. Like sometimes I walk down the street and I'm like, guys, really? Like, there's a the trash cans right there. Like, why are we so trashy? Or why are we we so mean to nature? Or why are we mean to animals? Like, you don't understand this whole I don't understand it. You know, I have that's why sometimes I'm like, well, as long as like as long as it's quick, I'm okay with AI being like, guys, you guys are the problem.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

You you are my favorite leftist monk.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I'm like, let's it's fine if it's I'm okay with with the AI deleting us. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

You're like, well what can I say is nice knowing you. Uh uh, nice knowing you too, Lou. Till next time, unless we get the control all deleted by then.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Absolutely right. Good to see you to me.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Always good to see you. Bye, Lou.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Bye. This is our thinner boilerplate. Chaos and Creativity is produced by Jeremy Johnson.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

It's edited by Alexandra Covey.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

And we'd like to thank our sponsor, our only sponsor, and our private sponsor, LinkFit Software, Fitting and Producing Software for Creative People.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

And anyone who's cooler than anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

That's what I'm saying.